tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post7718752545607688645..comments2024-01-28T08:54:32.914-06:00Comments on That's interesting...: Are conservatives just dumb?Bill Garthrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08552459555883204060noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-73425483214699342692012-06-08T10:14:21.244-05:002012-06-08T10:14:21.244-05:00The vast majority, Nate? Is that true? It's tr...The vast majority, Nate? Is that true? It's true of those Ivy League schools, of course, but note that they were almost all founded while we were still a British colony.<br /><br />Still, it might be true, I don't know. But I'm not sure how ironic that would be. Religious schools are generally founded in order to keep believers from being exposed to other viewpoints, exactly the point I made in the above post. Just look at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_University#Biology_and_fossils" rel="nofollow">Liberty University</a>, for a more modern example.<br /><br />You're right about the term "liberal education," although that's not how most right-wingers see it. I favor the earlier usage of the term myself, but the right-wing has been very successful when it comes to labels.<br /><br />If you look at polls, a majority of Americans seem to agree with liberal ideas, but sure as heck don't identify with the label. And labels do matter.<br /><br />Re. your last paragraph, I can hardly read that web page! What's with these sites and their bizarre color schemes? Still, by turning off the color I was able to puzzle it out.<br /><br />And I'd have to say,... um, so what? At a quick glance, most of those people were raised Christian in a majority-Christian nation. And who <i>doesn't</i> want to believe they'll live forever in a paradise? (As you know, it's always very, very easy to believe what we <i>want</i> to believe.)<br /><br />I'm somewhat familiar with the case of Dr. Antony Flew, which makes me rather doubt the honesty of the rest of that list.<br /><br />And I had to laugh at this part: "Josh McDowell set out to disprove the Christian faith as a college student only to arrive, after many months of study, at the conclusion that Jesus Christ must have been who he claimed to be."<br /><br />Heh, heh. I've got an acquaintance who set out to do something similar, to look at all major religions objectively, to see if one of them really made sense. Sure enough, he found one - only <i>one</i> religion which made rational sense.<br /><br />Oddly enough, <b>that turned out to be the religion he was raised to believe</b> (Judaism). Heh, heh. It's funny how these "critical examinations of beliefs" tend to turn out to support what you already want to believe, isn't it?<br /><br />Nevertheless, yes, there's no doubt that some atheists become Christians or Muslims or Hindus or Buddhists... or any other religion, sometimes. So what? People are people, and religious belief, after all, is far more common than the reverse, at least in most societies. I'd be shocked if such examples <i>couldn't</i> be found.<br /><br />What I'd like to ask each of them, though, is <i>why</i> they believe what they do. Do they have a good reason? I've never actually heard of a good reason myself, and I've known a <i>lot</i> of believers.<br /><br />Almost everyone I've ever known - especially as a <a href="http://garthright.blogspot.com/2010/04/non-belief-pt-1-childhood.html" rel="nofollow">child</a> - has been a Christian. You'd think that <i>one</i> person would have a good reason for their belief, wouldn't you? But I haven't heard one.<br /><br />So I must say that I'm a bit skeptical of that "critical examination of beliefs." Different people do come to different conclusions, true, but are those conclusions justified? I'd need some convincing of that.<br /><br />Thanks for the comment!Bill Garthrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552459555883204060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-73556138396871757442012-06-07T13:18:01.139-05:002012-06-07T13:18:01.139-05:00The clear irony here is that the *vast* majority o...The clear irony here is that the *vast* majority of higher learning institutions in this country were founded by religious organizations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League -- if anything, the current state of things now vs. then is related to the overall gradual shift away from sectarian influence since the early years of the country's origin (specifically with respect to institutions, the populace less so).<br /><br />Also, the term 'liberal education' predates the modern usage of the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative' in the political context.<br /><br />I think the real conclusion to be found here is that intelligent people are willing to critically examine their own beliefs. Many people grow up unquestioningly adopting the beliefs and views of their parents, and some reject them in adulthood or upon coming into contact with experiences that break their inherited paradigm.<br /><br />On the other hand, some (including well-known modern thinkers) have had religious experiences as a *result* of a critical examination of beliefs: http://www.awakeandamazed.com/id66.htmlNate Abelehttp://nateabele.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-77314211018293173882012-02-02T20:05:15.760-06:002012-02-02T20:05:15.760-06:00There's a reason why it's called a liberal...There's a reason why it's called a liberal education. There's also correlations between religious beliefs and education. The the more college a person has the less likely they are to be religious. And there's a reason why fundamentalists are opposed to education - they're at least smart enough to know that a good education creates liberal thinkers.Jim Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09953679196185650753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-51201665519756045412012-01-30T11:56:42.713-06:002012-01-30T11:56:42.713-06:00Yup. I agree with all of that, Gregg.Yup. I agree with all of that, Gregg.Bill Garthrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552459555883204060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-34316479878358402822012-01-30T11:52:48.286-06:002012-01-30T11:52:48.286-06:00With respect to Ron White, I don't think I agr...With respect to Ron White, I don't think I agree with his statement, Jeff. I think we <i>can</i> fix stupid, to some extent, at least.<br /><br />But I don't think that's the main problem, anyway. I don't think it takes much intelligence to change your mind. The big problem, in fact, might just be a lack of courage.<br /><br />It takes courage to face the fact that you were wrong. Few of us like to be wrong, and even fewer of us like to admit it. And most people believe what they <i>want</i> to believe. So it takes real courage to recognize that it's not true.<br /><br />It takes even more courage when you're going against your "tribe" - your family, your friends, your co-workers, your society. What will they think of you? How will they take your change of mind?<br /><br />Re. getting your news from the internet, one problem with that is that we self-select where to get that news. So we tend to get our information entirely from people who agree with us.<br /><br />I do that, too. But while it's easy to see the problem when it's Fox News viewers getting all of their information from the right-wing echo chamber, it's harder to apply that lesson to myself.Bill Garthrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552459555883204060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-34407009611469318982012-01-30T10:30:04.188-06:002012-01-30T10:30:04.188-06:00It's certainly tempting to think that anyone w...It's certainly tempting to think that anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid, but of course this study doesn't say that. It seems intuitive to think that people with more limited cognitive abilities could gavitate towards a more traditional or conservative point of view. Remember, we're talking about averages here - I've known a number of very conservative people (even some with fundamentalist religious views) who were very bright. I also question how you define intelligence - some very bright people I've known may not score highly on a test.<br /><br />Of course, it could be just one of those statistical anomolies - I remember reading once about a correlation between which party controlled congress and which league won the Super Bowl. An interesting correlation, but not predictive (and not indicative of cause and effect). This is all fun to speculate about, but I don't think it's information that changes anything.<br /><br />In any case, I wouldn't advise a politician to use that in his campaign - "Don't be Stupid, Vote for ME!" Hmmmm - on second thought, maybe that would work after all.......Gregg Garthrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01024020470731804949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-43900011118567264812012-01-30T10:01:28.547-06:002012-01-30T10:01:28.547-06:00Instead of "stupid," perhaps "arres...Instead of "stupid," perhaps "arrested development" might be the best way describe conservatives.<br /><br />I hope that's the case. Because, as Ron White said, "you can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever."<br /><br />Arrested development can be fixed. I'm one example. I used to be quite conservative until I got to my mid-20's. How did I "unplug from the Matrix," so to speak? For one thing, I STOPPED WATCHING THE TV NEWS!! America's stupidest half-hour. I get my news from the Internet almost exclusively now.<br /><br />It might not work for everyone, though. As Morpheus said in the first "Matrix" movie: "You have to understand most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And some are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on that system, that they will fight to protect it."Jeffnoreply@blogger.com