tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post8425417052550119575..comments2024-01-28T08:54:32.914-06:00Comments on That's interesting...: Ray Comfort irritates meBill Garthrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08552459555883204060noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-18137989880005786992013-01-01T05:10:21.606-06:002013-01-01T05:10:21.606-06:00What bothers me, Patrick, is the self-referential ...What bothers me, Patrick, is the self-referential nature of the Bible. We are supposed to believe it because it present's God's word. Who says it does? The Bible...<br /><br />Just as the Book of Mormon claims to, or the Koran, or any one of many religious texts. But clearly, they can't all be right. In fact, by definition at least all except one must be wrong. So why should I believe that any of the holy texts is right? What reason can there be to believe in any of them?<br /><br />Tony Williamshttp://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-63961998122126882732012-12-31T08:34:33.435-06:002012-12-31T08:34:33.435-06:00Well, Patrick, that's an interesting explanati...Well, Patrick, that's an interesting explanation, but do you see what you did? You had to twist yourself into knots, just to believe what you really <i>want</i> to believe.<br /><br />And you know, it seems like almost <i>every</i> Christian who comments here is a former atheist. I didn't realize we used to be so numerous! Of course, if you really had been an atheist, you wouldn't have hated 'God,' because you wouldn't have believed that gods existed. Do you hate Mother Goose?<br /><br />But here's the part I really don't understand. You say that God sacrificed Jesus to a horrible death "in order to save us." Um, how, exactly? What was the point? How did the torture and (temporary) death of Jesus 'save' anyone?<br /><br />First, what was he saving us <i>from</i>? Just from himself, right? Since God made all the rules - according to you - God could have changed them at any time. But he had to torture and kill... himself, basically (you're a monotheist, aren't you?), in order to convince himself to 'save' us? Some friend!<br /><br />And why torture and kill Jesus? If he'd wanted publicity, he'd have been better off in a more advanced, populous nation like China, rather than in a land of primitive goat-herders. And why have Jesus die at all? His divinity would have been much clearer with evidence.<br /><br />Of course, the Bible is a book of primitive mythology. People back then believed in scapegoating, piling your 'sins' on a goat and then driving off or killing the goat. It's just the magical-thinking of a primitive people.<br /><br />And gods liked blood sacrifices. Note that 'burnt offering' in the story of Abraham. You try to twist it to fit modern sensibilities, but that's not the message it was supposed to convey. It was supposed to mean, "Obey, or else!"<br /><br />Why couldn't an ordinary blood sacrifice satisfy God <i>this</i> time? Why wasn't even a human sacrifice big enough? Well, only the sacrifice of a god would be big enough to overcome 'original sin,' right? Yeah, that Genesis myth, which was <i>also</i> very primitive thinking.<br /><br />Without the Adam and Eve story - I assume you're intelligent enough that you don't take <i>that</i> as literal truth? - there's no point to sacrificing Jesus as a scapegoat. And even with it, the whole idea is just primitive superstition. You don't accept blood sacrifices these days, do you? You don't believe in scapegoats.<br /><br />But, apparently, you think "a loving God" is going to torture me for eternity because I see no good evidence that he exists. Heh, heh. What a 'friend'! (He's not <i>my</i> friend. I've got higher standards than that!)<br /><br />Can't you see how ridiculous that is? I'm sorry, but <i>nothing</i> in Christian mythology makes any sense, not these days. It's just primitive mythology, the magical-thinking of a people who didn't know any better.<br /><br />But thanks for the comment.<br />Bill Garthrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552459555883204060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-75706249424846231512012-12-31T01:09:46.175-06:002012-12-31T01:09:46.175-06:00Mr. Garthwright - an irritated atheist,
Well, I a...Mr. Garthwright - an irritated atheist,<br /><br />Well, I am sincerely sorry you are irritated. Your understanding of God apparently puts you far above me in your intellectual superiority. I would like to offer an alternative understanding of Genesis 22: 1-2, however. About the atheistic idea of this horrible, child-hating, unjust God deal. The Scripture of which you have used to condemn my God: " "Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, Abraham!' And he said, 'Here I am.' 2 And He said, 'Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you,'"(Gen. 22:1-2). As a long time student of the Holy Bible, my understanding of Scripture comes from the contexts and themes outlined from Genesis to Revelaafter these many years, I have finally come to admit there has been a significant mystical/spiritual understanding that I attribute to the Holy Spirit. Firstly, God and Abraham were extremely close. Abraham is called a"friend" of God. And Abraham exhibited none of the arrogance and self-centeredness of non-believers, who place their own needs and desires above all others'. Abraham was absolutely obedient to his Friend, God. And humble. His relationship was based on an awesome love for his Creator and complete trust and respect for his Maker. And from the total context of this story it is obvious God had no intention of following through on this sacrifice of Issac. In fact, God even supplied the the necessary sacrificial lamb at the end of this exercise. Remember, God is a patient, instructing God. He had, and continues to have, man's best interest at Heart. This exercise was actually a statement about God's immense Love for us. He was given a taste of the overwhelming, and some would say impossible, task of sacrificing his only son. But it was God who would do with His own Son what he asked Abraham to do to Issac. In order to save us ,God would have to sacrifice Jesus to a horrible death,(albeit a very temporary death). This does not fit the narrative of the god you describe. This describes a God who is loving, generous, compassionate, and sincere. Selfishness, self-centeredness, pettiness, and dishonesty does not an argument make, sir. I believe that at the conclusion of your life, you will simply die an irritated man. And, there will be very few who care that you are irritated. God's laws are clearly put forth in Scripture. There are consequences either way for how we respond to His laws. "Kissing God's Butt" is not one of these laws. His requirement to love him with all that you are is a law. It's not a tough law to follow. Telling the truth is a law and is not impossible to accomplish. Lying reveals a heart that is deceptive. Why do you excuse deception? And I cannot find a reference that lying condemns a person to hell. Accepting God's redemption is what is required to join God after our death. And blasphemy is not simply saying God's name in vain. Blasphemy suggests that we assume the rights and qualities of God. That we become a god, so to speak. Blasphemy doesn't give you a ticket to hell. Turning from God does. Not too complicated to understand. <br />As a former God-hating, arrogant atheist, I know this irritation of which you experience. The road I have traveled to become a friend and servant of God has been excruciating and filled with irritation. But a journey most certainly worth the pain and trouble. That you are even sharing your disdain and irritation for God and His Law gives me hope that you may someday find a friend in God, as did Abraham and countless other non-believers. You may find yourself becoming a valuable asset to help other irritated and angry non-believers find the way to salvation and peace in the Arms of a loving God. Patrick Oliver Griswoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00824263869242327513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-70366748998412929122012-12-29T10:53:08.125-06:002012-12-29T10:53:08.125-06:00Thanks, Tony. In a way, that's the other side ...Thanks, Tony. In a way, that's the other side of this, isn't it?<br /><br />Ray Comfort doesn't understand that you can enjoy life without thinking it's going to last forever. But when things <i>don't</i> go well, when bad things happen, you don't have to think that some all-powerful god is just screwing with you, either.<br /><br />Atheists don't need to fall back on idiotic platitudes like "God works in mysterious ways" to explain what makes no sense, because we know that, sometimes, shit happens. I especially liked this:<br /><br /><i>"If I believed in a god who made this shit happen on purpose, I wouldn’t be comforted. I’d be wanting to find the biggest ladder I could, climb to heaven, and punch the guy’s lights out. Either that, or I’d be wracked with guilt and confusion trying to figure out what I’d done to deserve this, or what lesson I was supposed to be learning from it."</i><br /><br />Thanks for the link, Tony.<br />Bill Garthrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08552459555883204060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-379287241318002122.post-13924538268265431342012-12-29T05:48:13.762-06:002012-12-29T05:48:13.762-06:00Good post Bill, I've bookmarked that for futur...Good post Bill, I've bookmarked that for future reference.<br /><br />You might be interested in this: http://thehumanist.org/january-february-2013/humanism-in-a-shitstorm/<br /><br />I particularly liked this comment on the article:<br /><br />"There are lots of Atheists in foxholes, but none of them are killing people in the name of god."<br /><br />Anthony G Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00798830903236765181noreply@blogger.com